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20 may. 2011

La incompetencia de los developers de ArchLinux expuesta | The ArchLinux decadency exposed

El dia de hoy, decidi darle una patada en el culo a ArchLinux, o como dice un amigo "garchilinux", esta distro que tanto idolatran sin saber realmente. El que tiene un poco mas de conocimiento, se puede dar cuenta que es una reverenda basura, y no son solo palabras, voy a hacer algo que me venia callando, pero hoy es el dia en que me harte, mi paciencia se colmo y llego un punto donde no puedo dejar de mostrar al mundo las respuestas de estos tipos y sobre todo como cierran los bug (que saben que son reales y por SU culpa) rapidamente antes de que alguien mas los vea, pero se joden, porque aca los posteo. Me importa nada si luego asocian el user con el texto en el blog, es real, y el que quiera ocultarlo, puede comentar, refutar, que no sera censurado, tiene derecho a replica; y si no entiende español, que se pele el culo como yo usando Google Translate para entender -si realmente le interesa-.

Todo comenzo cuando reporte un bug sobre xfce y le digo a Andreas Radke que se debia a las librerias de GCC, dado que habia visto eso mismo en muchos foros, y me contesta para mi sorpresa, el mismo empaquetador, él, que no recuerda con que version de gcc lo compilo, increible no?.
Luego toma partido un tal Rémy, donde me borra los link que habia posteado sobre undefined symbols relacionados a gcc 4.6 y me explica muy amablemente los pasos a seguir y que como ya habia dictaminado yo, no ellos, que era el paquete xfce4-goodies, que probara uno a uno a ver cual era el fallado, ahora, no es trabajo de un "developer" hacer eso aunque mas no sea en una virtual machine?, es broma?.
Sumo a esto que dias mas tarde tras un update de la muerte, como suelen ser los de archlinux, del paquete libxfce4ui version 4.8.0-2, me quedo sin desktop y tarda mas de 10 segundos en iniciar el mismo luego de startx, para hacer un downgrade y ver que el error se corregia.
Noto al momento que esa version pertenece a Debian Sid, o sea, unstable, y es donde pregunto en el mismo bugtracker, quien toma las decisiones, si existe un equipo de control de calidad, a lo que me responde Rémy que no, que las cosas pasan de testing a stable cuando nadie reporta bugs; es decir, los usuarios de testing, a ver si entendemos este punto, son los que si reportan se ve y si no reportan, pasa derecho, asi es como existe gnome shell con memory leak, mismo articulo en este blog.
A ver, señores, todos los usuarios no son coder ni yo mismo lo soy al nivel que necesita una distro, y tampoco reportan todo como yo, sinceramente es bastante denso estar cada 2 dias reportando bugs una y otra vez, por tanto, la confianza de que todo ande bien depende de si los usuarios desean reportarlo, increible nuevamente el proceso de testeo, comparado con Gentoo que tambien es rolling pero los ports son altamente probados y ademas se usan parches, cosa que la gente de ArchLinux no usa, no se si porque es su filosofia, porque no saben o porque les da alergia el comando patch.
Todo culmina cuando el gcc se upgradea a 4.6.0-5 y no logro compilar un solo kernel, a ver señores, llevo al menos 2 años compilando kernel's, mejorandolos, haciendo hacking en sus makefile, usando flags donde no debo y jamas tuve problemas, asi que evidentemente esto no es un problema mio, asi que busque el problema y di con el.
Aclaro, que uso kernel propios porque se me hace mejor un kernel con mis modulos y solo con mis cosas, a mi gusto, con mis parches y con las cosas empotradas y no modulares, vamos, que no ando cambiando el chipset cada semana!.
Doy con el problema, y resulta que lo veo en una lista de bug report de Debian Sid, con el gcc 4.6, hago los test que se describen alli y veo que el gcc de ArchLinux se comporta de igual forma en todos los casos (no por el hecho de devolver 0 o 1, sino por el exceso de warning que conlleva a no compilar), es decir, mal, por tanto concluyo que el problema es ese, el gcc, no yo, no el kernel, no la pc, no la presion atmosferica.
En base a esto, con mis mejores ganas, porque hay gente que ni ganas tiene, me pongo a probar y reportar para que mejoren el tema y poder volver a tener un sistema estable como tenia antes. Claro, ahora ya es tarde para volver al gcc 4.5.2 no pueden, aunque quisieran, porque todo lo que esta en los repos esta compilado con el 4.6 y lo que posee mucha gente en sus PC, por tanto si cambian las librerias harian la distro inservible.
Paso a pegar los bug report, y luego comentare al final, pero lean por favor los bug report:

FS#24355 - [gcc 4.6.0-5] [-Wunused-but-set-variable] 

Details

Description:

gcc 4.6.0-5 not finish compile a vanilla kernel with steps:

make menuconfig (previous .config from slackware 13.37 with gcc 4.5.2 and work fine)
make bzImage - Fail at finish time with various errors

I see an error in debian bug list, and the _same_ error i can reproduce in x86 and x86_64 system ArchLinux (have 1 notebook and 1 desktop)

Test it:

test.c:
----------------------------------------------------------
#include <stdio.h>

int main(void)
{
int x;
x = printf("hello, world\n");
return 0;
}
-----------------------------------------------------------
gcc -Wall -Werror test.c; echo $?

test.c: En la función ‘main’:
test.c:5:13: error: se define la variable ‘x’ pero no se usa [-Werror=unused-but-set-variable]
cc1: todos los avisos se tratan como errores

1

------------------------------------------------------------

gcc -Werror=unused-but-set-variable test.c; echo $?

test.c: En la función ‘main’:
test.c:5:13: error: se define la variable ‘x’ pero no se usa [-Werror=unused-but-set-variable]
cc1: algunos avisos se tratan como errores

1
-------------------------------------------------------------
gcc -Werror=unused-but-set-variable test.c; echo $?

test.c: En la función ‘main’:
test.c:5:13: error: se define la variable ‘x’ pero no se usa [-Werror=unused-but-set-variable]
cc1: algunos avisos se tratan como errores

1
--------------------------------------------------------------

The same problem is reported in debian, reference:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-gcc/2011/02/msg00107.html


Additional info:
* package version(s)
* config and/or log files etc.
System up to date, archlinux_x86 stable and archlinux_x86_64 stable, the same error. Using xfce or kde in both machines.

note: if you need me to translate the texts in Spanish just ask him

Steps to reproduce:
This task depends upon

Closed by  Andreas Radke (AndyRTR)
Friday, 20 May 2011, 05:22 GMT-3
Reason for closing:  Not a bug
Additional comments about closing:  The kernel does compile with our safe preset flags in makepkg.conf. Using custom flags is your fun (probably has to be fixed in the kernel code).
Comment by jelle van der waa (jelly) - Friday, 20 May 2011, 05:01 GMT-3
could you please attach the output to the bug report and use LANG=C your command
http://allanmcrae.com/2011/05/how-to-file-a-bug-report/
Creo que fui lo suficientemente claro como para que lo cerraran, no creen?, ok, intento de nuevo y esta vez fui insolente al punto de arriesgarme a que me patearan o quien sabe que cosa, pero veo que Allan se hizo cargo y Ionut Biru, un joven rumano que creo que es genial en lo que hace, comento debajo que ni el entendia porque Andreas Radke habia cerrado el bug y que era claro que era el gcc y no yo!, pego el bug report:

FS#24359 - [gcc 4.6.0-5] [-Wunused-but-set-variable] 

 

Details

Prologue:

Andreas Radke Wrote:


 FS#24355
bug

"closing: The kernel does compile with our safe preset flags in makepkg.conf. Using custom flags is your fun (probably has to be fixed in the kernel code)."

NOTE FOR ANDREAS RADKE:

1) I did not add extra flags to kernel compilation, i take .config file of ARCH kernel and only removed unnecesary features, for example: I use AMD, so I'd remove "Intel Speed step", i do not have WiFi, so I'd remove "wireless support", ok? is _now_ clear enough for you?

2) In Fedora, Slackware, Gentoo, Debian, X-Men-Linux the kernel respete a standard, in archlinux also used to do it until GCC 4.5.2, steps:

cp /usr/src/linux-2.6.38-ARCH/.config /usr/src/linux-2.6.38.6/.config

cd /usr/src/linux-2.6.38.6/

make menuconfig

(remove a lot of unnecesary modules)

make -jX (X== number of cores + 1)
make modules_install
make install
mkinitcpio -k 2.6.38.6 -c /etc/mkinitcpio.conf -g /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.38.6.img
mv /boot/vmlinuz /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.38.6

Add all in new line in /boot/grub/menu.lst and reboot
It is standard in all distros, is into README of kernel and works fine with GCC 4.5.2 in all arch.

Clearly my "fun", as you call it, is not a reason for closing the bug at any case you could ask me to report it to upstream, do not ignore the bug please, a lot of users that use custom kernel and software are affected.
The /etc/makepkg.conf is not used in this procedure, i do not use PKGBUILD (for kernel compilation), a kernel is source code, is not necesary to package it.
The description show cleary the bug in gcc, and is reported in Debian sid, unstable, if ArchLinux use the equivalent to Debian sid packages, ok, is no my problem, but i see necessary to report the bug, do you get me?.
Sorry by the """rude""" mode, but i'm not used to receive such obvious answers and less without waiting a feedback from me before that; i like to report bugs cause i like to help to improve things, if i'm being annoying, then just say it and i will take a desicion.



Description:

content of test.c:

#include <stdio.h>

int main(void)
{
int x;
x = printf("hello, world\n");
return 0;
}


-------------------------------------------------------------

LANG=C gcc -Wall -Werror test.c; echo $?

test.c: In function 'main':
test.c:5:13: error: variable 'x' set but not used [-Werror=unused-but-set-variable]
cc1: all warnings being treated as errors

1
------------------------------------------------------------------
LANG=C gcc -Wunused-but-set-variable -Werror test.c; echo $?

test.c: In function 'main':
test.c:5:13: error: variable 'x' set but not used [-Werror=unused-but-set-variable]
cc1: all warnings being treated as errors

1
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LANG=C gcc -Werror=unused-but-set-variable test.c; echo $?

test.c: In function 'main':
test.c:5:13: error: variable 'x' set but not used [-Werror=unused-but-set-variable]
cc1: some warnings being treated as errors

1
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

In fact, i reproduce the same bug that Debian report in Sid, in Arch 32 and 64 bits, so, GCC is buggy, is not only the kernel, the kernel is just the proof of what those bugs produce in a code of thousands of lines.
I did observe that you apply a patch to kernel source code before compiling it.

See the link and the comments on it, read please:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-gcc/2011/02/msg00107.html

Thanks to jelle van der waa for the tip, is helpful ;) (LANG=C)

Regards
This task depends upon

Comment by Ionut Biru (wonder) - Friday, 20 May 2011, 08:51 GMT-3
i found it silly that you actually open a new bug instead of asking for reopen. Also i found it funny that the bug was closed with that comment. clearly x variable is used and gcc is bugged
Comment by synflag (synflag) - Friday, 20 May 2011, 09:18 GMT-3 Edit
@Ionut

1.- if true, but I do not like asking for the reopening of a bug
2.- totally agree with you, I find it funny and even ignorant of the reason for the closure, it is clear the bug and the explanation, and that had nothing to do with the way I use to compile with the bug, but the compilation failed was the product of bug I do not use patches and never necessary, even I could build 4.6.0-4, had warnings but compiled perfectly, even changing the flag, and suddenly without changing anything and use the Arch configuration does not compile on any architecture Or what is bad and not the result is useless.
3.- Yes, i'm not a coder but i can recognize the obvious variable and the no related warning.

Comment by Gaetan Bisson (vesath) - Friday, 20 May 2011, 09:40 GMT-3
The Debian bug report complains that the return code of GCC is wrong (should be non-zero since an error occurred, but was not); here, the return code is perfectly fine.
So what "bug" in GCC are you reporting?

GCC emits a warning when you don't use a variable (just setting it doesn't count as using); with -Werror, all warnings are fatal so compilation aborts - this behavior is completely normal to me.
Comment by synflag (synflag) - Friday, 20 May 2011, 10:13 GMT-3 Edit
@Gaetan try compile a vanilla kernel with traditional way and using gcc 4.6.0-5, 2.6.38.6 for example, or 2.6.37.6 slackware kernel from kernel.org, before i compile without any problem, and no use PKGBUILD, now, i can not compile a functionally kernel after update.
With 4.5.2 version of gcc is normal "variable is declared but not used" while is make executed, in 4.6.0-5 the message is -Wunused-but-set-variable a _lot_ of times, finish in defected binary or never produce bzImage or modules.dep is ausent, or modules corrupted. Then, all code of linux kernel is bad?, why using 4.5.2 compile fine and work fine without errors during days, uptimes of 10, 15 or more days.

I have this same issue compiling kernels http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.emulators.qemu/100631 (not exactly fpu bug but 4.6 not compile)
Comment by Gaetan Bisson (vesath) - Friday, 20 May 2011, 11:05 GMT-3
I am happy with Arch stock kernel, thank you.

The point is, you build stuff with "-Werror" and it raises an error when you have unused variable; that is expected. (GCC-4.6 probably just became stricter in the way it handles/detects unused variables.)

Just do not compile with "-Werror".
Comment by synflag (synflag) - Friday, 20 May 2011, 11:26 GMT-3 Edit
@Gaetan i do not use -Werror, only take the vanilla kernel and configure .config file, i did not touch the Makefile, so the fix is to modify Makefile?, Torvalds makes so bad his work?, doesn't he know that gcc 4.6 exists?.
Gaetan, i'm not happy with the stock kernel, if i want to use all system by default i would use Ubuntu. The advantage of ArchLinux is it's phylosophy KISS and flexibility (custom kernel, packages, AUR as an example of this). Beside 2.6.38.6 kernel has trouble with AMD Athlon family (my cpu), and has randomized kernel panics (not reported because is a bug in upstream), https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/5/14/108
The kernel 2.6.38.3 work fine, and 2.6.37.6 very fine (the branch .38 have ioremap error in GT 240 Nvidia with all drivers, no impact but is present in dmesg).
The lastest versions are not always better, rolling release is a good idea, kamize and no tested packages not, so, i decide wich kernel to compile, considering it's the core of the OS. I take control over the kernel, but not over the gcc, if gcc is wrong, i lost control over the core and stability of my system, i do not have a server, but i work with my machine, so is important for me the mantain the system stable all day long.
Parece que, pese a que Gaetan tiene un master en matematica, la informatica no es lo de el... digo... le gusta usar las cosas como vienen, 0 geekismo, 0 espiritu entusiasta y se adapta mas a lo que son los Ubuntu users o Winusers, sabian que gente como el se encarga de la distro que usas?, terrible no es verdad?


Bueno, un punto a favor no? (lo digo por Ionut), pero esto es como el cuento de la buena pipa, o del tio como lo conocen algunos, o la novia que se va con otro, y te pide perdon y tu la perdonas pero lo vuelve a hacer y es una historia de nunca acabar, asi que mi determinacion de _terminar_ que valga la redundancia, con ArchLinux es definitiva, si voy a tener que subir los tonos para que me escuchen, hacerme mala sangre, ponerme nervioso, no me sirve señores, he reportado cosas a Red Hat y no he tenido estos problemas, al contrario, mal que le pese a muchos que critican esa empresa, pero me dejaban el bug abierto hasta que alguno de ellos traia un RPM fixeado y me pedia que lo pruebe, eso es trabajar y tomarse las cosas en serio.

Ahora viene la parte de xfce:

FS#24122 - [xfdesktop] error with libstdc++.so.6 of gcc 4.6 

Details

Description:

When I logout from session xfce 4.8 in tty1 (i use startx for start desktop and X), I see this message

xfdesktop: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6: undefined symbol: _ZNSt14error_categoryD2Ev, version GLIBCXX_3.4.15

A few days later of this thing happens repeatedlly xfce desktop gets broken.

Making a downgrade to gcc 4.5.2 this error does not appear, so, i guess is a problem in gcc libs (gcc 4.6), but with gcc 4.5.2 firefox, chromium, virtualbox etc., do not work because they are compiled with gcc 4.6, thus they depend on it.
How can i fix this?.-

Additional info:
* package version(s)
* config and/or log files etc.
xfce 4.8
gcc-multilib-4.6.0-4-x86_64
kernel 2.6.38.5
Xorg 1.10

Steps to reproduce:

Login in tty1, type startx, and logout of xfce session, produces this error in tty1.
This task depends upon

Comment by Andreas Radke (AndyRTR) - Friday, 06 May 2011, 03:49 GMT-3
I'm not sure if the last xfdesktop package has been build with gcc4.5 or 4.6 - can you confirm if a xfdesktop rebuild with gcc4.6 helps?
Comment by synflag (synflag) - Friday, 06 May 2011, 09:45 GMT-3 Edit
@Andreas:

I triyed with several xfdesktop of AUR, git and others, but with no satisfactory results (same error descripted), i even recompiled thunar. If you have any other PKGBUILD or source, tell me how and from to compile it, and i will be glad to test it. Is a shame that a desktop that works so well, was ruined by a poor control of QA by the release of gcc 4.6 without measuring the impact on all areas and software that are related.
i ended up using xfce because gnome3 is terribly buggy and completely unusable (it looks like an Ipad homescreen), KDE is the same s**t with it's "segfault 11" and kded4 daemon hungs up and forks after restarting X. Tell me which method you want me to use to compile and build it (xfdesktop or necessary packages) To see if I can fix this, many thanks in advance for the quick response to the bug report-question.

Note: edited, sorry for my english.
Comment by Robin Hahling (Rolinh) - Saturday, 07 May 2011, 09:52 GMT-3
Well I actually do not think this is strictly related to xfdesktop.
You can reproduce the bug with other programs.
Eg:

[robin@odin ~] % mocp -i
State: STOP
mocp: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6: undefined symbol: _ZNSt14error_categoryD2Ev, version GLIBCXX_3.4.15
!127! [robin@odin ~] %

Same with Thunar:

[robin@odin ~] % thunar
thunar: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6: undefined symbol: _ZNSt14error_categoryD2Ev, version GLIBCXX_3.4.15
!127! [robin@odin ~] %

So this is probably a bug in glibc.

EDIT: this bug is probably related https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/23879
Comment by Leonid Isaev (lisaev) - Saturday, 07 May 2011, 13:20 GMT-3
synflag, you are using multilib? In this case, the repo should not be /extra.
I am asking because I could not reproduce your problem with pure 32 and 64 bit xfce installs.
Comment by Jeremy Whiting (jpwhiting) - Saturday, 07 May 2011, 13:43 GMT-3
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=48838 this seems to be the cause (and fix) of the issue. We see it when we try to build kdevplatform also. Downgrading to 4.6.0-3 fixes the issue, maybe making a new version of this package with the fix in gcc repos would be good too.
Comment by Rémy Oudompheng (remyoudompheng) - Saturday, 07 May 2011, 15:09 GMT-3
@jpwhiting: the problem seems completely unrelated

@synflag: xfce is not written in C++. Issues with libstdc++ must come from elsewhere.

Do you have real problems with XFCE ?
Comment by synflag (synflag) - Saturday, 07 May 2011, 23:38 GMT-3 Edit
@remyoudompheng

Yes, i know that xfce is no written in C++, but the bug is reported in gcc.gnu bugzilla and other bug herev FS#24122. Eric Belanger say:
"Comment by Eric Belanger (Snowman) - Saturday, 07 May 2011, 17:20 GMT-3
That's plenty of confirmations. It happens on both arches. After reading a comment in the similar bug FS#24122, I realized that moc is written in c and doesn't even link to /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6, So it looks like a gcc or glibc issue as other apps are also affected by this."

The problem is that the bug _is present_, and after some days, some features of xfce desktop are broken or with constant restarting.
Comment by Allan McRae (Allan) - Saturday, 07 May 2011, 23:54 GMT-3
The bug is not in gcc.gnu bugzilla anywhere as far as I can tell. If so, please provide a link.

Edit: Note the bug linked here was probably meant for
 FS#24142
and is entirely unreleated...
Comment by Allan McRae (Allan) - Sunday, 08 May 2011, 00:01 GMT-3
@synflag: please be more specific than "some features" are broken. It is hard to figure out what "some features" are to replicate...
Comment by Rémy Oudompheng (remyoudompheng) - Sunday, 08 May 2011, 04:09 GMT-3
@synflag: my XFCE is absolutely not broken, and my mocp is not broken either. You may be using xfce plugins that links to libstdc++.
Comment by synflag (synflag) - Tuesday, 10 May 2011, 06:40 GMT-3 Edit
@Allan

Mouse pointers, init daemon at start desktop (the setted daemon to run not run in some times), the xfce panel dissapear aleatory.
I use 64 bit, i don't know if the bug is present in i686.
So... the desktop broke parts randomized, and plugins addons, wheater, time, etc.
Anyway, maybe they can replicate the fault or not, but the error appears in the libraries that I do not think that is something not casually, and is linked 100% to gcc 4.6.0, when using the gcc 4.5.2 libs do not see these errors.
So, is a bug in gcc 4.6 libs, test Allan and Rémy, start XFCE with startx, and close session from the menu, and in tty1 (where startx executed) the error is clear, now,remove all gcc 4.6 packages and use arm with 4.5.2, the error no appear, i'm no crazy.

https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/23879
Comment by synflag (synflag) - Tuesday, 10 May 2011, 06:42 GMT-3 Edit
Comment by Rémy Oudompheng (remyoudompheng) - Wednesday, 11 May 2011, 02:14 GMT-3
synflag: please try to not post completely random links that have nothing ot do with your problem. This adds noise to the discussion and doesn't help in any way. Instead, proceed in a systematic way:
- tell us whether the message appears only when you logout or it is was already there while your session is running
- don't mix your report with seemingly unrelated problems like "Mouse pointers, init daemon at start desktop (the setted daemon to run not run in some times)"
- attach the output of "lsof -c xfdesktop"
- nobody said you're crazy, I just said the bug does not exist at all on my system. It is possible that you use plugins that exhibit the problem
- the fix is not to downgrade gcc, but to correct programs.
Comment by synflag (synflag) - Wednesday, 18 May 2011, 04:07 GMT-3 Edit
Rémy,

1.- The message appear when close session, is described in the report, startx, ctrl+alt+F1 no message, app menu, exit, and the message is present in tty1 (where executed startx)
2.- No mix nothing, i say: mouse pointer, init script (apps that run at start xfce desktop), and panels crashed on few days
3.- Attached
4.- Rémy, ok, is true, nodoby say that i am crazy, but, is frustating report and repot and repot and i can see that the most or all devs respond "works for me"..... well, no all systems are identic in hardware, software, etc. Sorry but in some times i feel that arch devs ignore me or ignore que minor bugs, i work with other distros and no is frecuent this bug's
5.- I know, but is a problem with gcc libs, i know, is evident

Note: no random link, all links are related with regression in gcc 4.6 and c++ compatibility. The problem is solved in a fresh install, if i install xfce4-goodies the bug is present, if only install xarchiver, wheater the bug is not present, so, is related to some c++ code in goodies in conflict to libs of gcc 4.6.0-5, then, is true, gcc 4.6 is a problem, is a bad very bad decision move of testing to stable, have problems related with some software, i.e.; xfce4-goodies, if using gcc 4.5.2 libs not appear que bug, then, is the gcc, no xfce.
Extra question, who take decicions about move testing to stable?, is really tested?, exists a QA team?, beta testers?, i don't think, very bad, is not your problem Rémy, is a problem of ArchLinux, if the archlinux way continue by the "ubuntu way" (bug and more bug), i will be migrate to other distro, gentoo for example, your ports is tested a lot of times. Sorry for the extra-comment, but i want talk to dev's of any body for talk about of QA in arch, extra data: Some archlinux developers confesated me in private irc channel of archlinux in freenode that want migrate to other distro, for this reason (no QA control), i never lies, is true, well, reegards Rémy.
Thanks for help me
sorry my english.
Comment by Rémy Oudompheng (remyoudompheng) - Wednesday, 18 May 2011, 14:13 GMT-3
Hello synflag,

4. we don't say "works for me" just for the sake of saying it: we say it because we have absolutely no idea about what the problem. We are not geniuses, and we honestly say that we don't know what the problem is.
5. no, it is not obvious that the problem comes from gcc-libs. As you can see from the patch I attached for
 FS#23879
.
- could you try not to install all xfce4-goodies ? Just install one goodie and tell us which goodie triggers the bug, it will be very help ful.

- your links are random: I can google "undefined symbol" myself. I understand that you may think some links are useful, but please don't post a link unless you understand it and you can tell why it is important. If you cannot say why your link is useful, don't post it. Undefined symbol is a pretty generic error that happens in various, very different situations
- we have no assigned team of testers. Anyone can test packages in [testing] and report bugs. If no-one tests packages, then it means no-one cares about QA.
- users are free to change distributions. I personally do not consider this as a problem. Only bugs/feature requests are problems.
Comment by Allan McRae (Allan) - Thursday, 19 May 2011, 01:56 GMT-3
  • Field changed: Status (Assigned → Waiting on Response)
> Just install one goodie and tell us which goodie triggers the bug, it will be very helpful.

In fact, that is what is required to move forward in fixing this issue.
Comment by Leonid Isaev (lisaev) - Thursday, 19 May 2011, 11:18 GMT-3
xfce4-xkb-plugin is OK here (as well as xarchiver). If this is a problem with xfce4-goodies, why does the title say [xfdesktop]?
Insolito no es verdad? el empaquetador no sabe con que compilo.... y si, es el miren:
pacman -Si libxfce4ui
Repositorio       : extra
Nombre            : libxfce4ui
Versión           : 4.8.0-2
URL               : http://www.xfce.org/
Licencias         : GPL2
Grupos            : Nada
Provee            : Nada                                                                                                                     
Depende de        : libxfce4util>=4.8.0  gtk2  xfconf>=4.8.0  startup-notification                                                           
Dep. opcionales   : glade: for using the included glade module                                                                               
En conflicto con    : Nada                                                                                                                   
Reemplaza a         : Nada
Tamaño de descarga:  68,70 K
Tamaño instalado  : 598,00 K
Empaquetador      : Andreas Radke <andyrtr@archlinux.org>
Arquitectura      : i686
Fecha de compilación : mié 18 may 2011 13:34:11 ART
Suma MD5          : 4e7e22e88a383cc25b845e800dc9f5c9
Descripción       : share commonly used Xfce widgets among the Xfce applications
Ok, sigamos con el otro:

FS#24339 - [libxfce4ui] 4.8.0-2 crash the desktop 

Details

Description:
After update of libxfce4ui 4.8.0-1 to libxfce4ui 4.8.0-2, the desktop crashly totally, description:

1.- startx in tty1
2.- 8 seconds for show desktop (4 cores cpu and 8gb of ram)
3.- show desktop and after 5 seconds no show desktop anymore (home folder, icons, disk mounted, wallpaper)
4.- in tty1 the message is "other window manager is running"

Additional info:
* package version(s)
* config and/or log files etc.

libxfce4ui 4.8.0-2 is buggy.
Downgrade from /var/cache/pacman/pkg/ to 4.8.0-1 and bug is no present, so, -2 version is buggy.

Note: see the FS#24122 task, some body test any pkg before upload to repos?.


Steps to reproduce:
This task depends upon

Comment by Zhehao Mao (zhehao) - Wednesday, 18 May 2011, 21:17 GMT-3
I am having a similar problem. After starting xfce with startx, it takes a while for the window manager to fully load. I also get an error message "Failed to load the desktop folder. File enumerator has outstanding operation". synflag, how do I downgrade to the previous non-buggy version?
Comment by synflag (synflag) - Thursday, 19 May 2011, 00:21 GMT-3 Edit
Zhehao,

Yes, same error, i'am tired with bug over bug, packages no tested.
To Downgrade, go to /var/cache/pacman/pkg/ and find the package libxfce4ui-4.8.0-1.pkg.tar.xz with ls -l, then, execute pacman -U libxfce4ui-4.8.0-1.pkg.tar.xz, and after edit /etc/pacman.conf add ignorepkg = libxfce4ui and write, for not affect your system with news upgrades (pacman -Syu).

Reegards.
Comment by Andreas Radke (AndyRTR) - Thursday, 19 May 2011, 02:57 GMT-3
The pkg is just a rebuild removing the Xfce4 group. I've also noticed the somewhat longer time until the desktop was fully loaded. But I see no error so far.

I assume gcc4.6 producing bad code here. Assigning also to Allan for a possible compiler bug.
Comment by Rémy Oudompheng (remyoudompheng) - Thursday, 19 May 2011, 03:30 GMT-3
synflag: hello I cannot reproduce this problem. Please post the complete output of startx, in an attached file. Thank you. You must give enough information so that we know which program is crashing.
Also please mention any package related to XFCE that you may have installed from AUR.
Comment by Leonid Isaev (lisaev) - Thursday, 19 May 2011, 11:25 GMT-3
Also, do you have any gtk3 themes in use?
Comment by Zhehao Mao (zhehao) - Thursday, 19 May 2011, 11:59 GMT-3
I've attached the startx readout for libxfce4ui version 2 and version 1 in startx.log and startx-old.log respectively. It seems that the problem is that version 2 is causing multiple instances of the startup programs to be run when only one should be. Version 1 does not have this problem, as the logs show.
Comment by Rémy Oudompheng (remyoudompheng) - Thursday, 19 May 2011, 15:07 GMT-3
zhehao: can you post the contents of your .xinitrc file? is your system completely up to date?
Comment by Zhehao Mao (zhehao) - Thursday, 19 May 2011, 15:42 GMT-3
My system is completely up to date, but for now I have downgraded libxfce4ui so as to avoid the bug. Here is my .xinitrc. It sources the files in /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc.d/. I have attached those as well.
Comment by Rémy Oudompheng (remyoudompheng) - Thursday, 19 May 2011, 15:50 GMT-3
I'm not sure the usage of startxfce4 in .initrc is correct: both of your logs show multiple launches of the same thing. Can you try replacing startxfce4 by xfce4-session in your .xinitrc file ?
Comment by Leonid Isaev (lisaev) - Thursday, 19 May 2011, 16:04 GMT-3
OK, what is it with people and dbus?
1. /usr/bin/startxfce4 already calls dbus-launch, so it should be disabled in .xinitrc.
2. Similarly, 30-dbus is not needed.

Using xfce4-session instead of startxfce4 will disable automount, trash and possibly the root menu.
Comment by Zhehao Mao (zhehao) - Thursday, 19 May 2011, 19:26 GMT-3
Leonid, after commenting out everything in .xinitrc except for exec startxfce4, the problem persists. Remy, I'm pretty sure the log when running the old version of libxfce4ui (startx-old.log) does not show multiple launches of the same program.
Comment by Evangelos Foutras (foutrelis) - Friday, 20 May 2011, 03:32 GMT-3
I can't replicate OP's bug, but I did notice a change in behavior in 4.8.0-2. Previously, I would press Alt+F4 on the desktop to bring up the log out menu. After updating to 4.8.0-2, Alt+F4 does nothing anymore.

It appears that 4.8.0-2's libxfce4kbd-private-2.so.0.0.0 and libxfce4ui-1.so.0.0.0 are not linked against libSM, and while building in a chroot you can see that it reports "X11 session management: no" after the configure step.

Long story short, adding 'libsm' to the dependencies and rebuilding brings back the "Alt+F4 on the desktop -> Log out menu" functionality for me.

Maybe it fixes this bug too? You can test with the following packages:

(packages removed, use 4.8.0-3 from [extra])
Comment by Andreas Radke (AndyRTR) - Friday, 20 May 2011, 03:50 GMT-3
libxfce4ui 4.8.0-3 in extra has libsm dependency added. please check if this solves the reported problems.
Comment by Daniel (prizeloser) - Friday, 20 May 2011, 05:24 GMT-3
4.8.0-3 gets rid of the bug for me.
Notese en toda ocasion la incompetencia y la falta de voluntad para el caso, digo yo, si van a hacer las cosas de mala gana o sin ella, no es mejor dejarselo a quien si las tenga?.
Bueno, no voy a poner el resto que son como 4 mas, pero todo en el breve lapso de unos meses, he llegado a usar Slackware current, incluso Ubuntu (total basura) me dio menos problemas en su breve uso.
Tampoco son probados los kernel, la ultima version 2.6.38.6 cada una cantidad de veces no exacta da kernel panic. Buscando, cosa que ellos _no_ hacen, encontre que le llaman regresion en el kernel respecto a los procesadores AMD de la clase Athlon, pero claro, ellos no leen lkml. Digo yo, no haria mejor trabajo la comunidad, que esta manga de estupidos que solo piensan en llenar su Curriculum de Linkedin?.
Por esto y mucho mas, es que hoy instalare Debian 6, y vere como va, por lo que me han dicho tengo buenas referencias, ya probe Slackware pero no siempre anda como como debiera respecto a los Slackbuild, si bien me gusta jugar con el sistema, tambien debo trabajar con el.
Si buscan el bugtracker, veran que incluso entre los mismos developers se reportan cosas y se contestan la razon para cerrarlo "works for me". Bueno, basta ver lo que le dice Ionut Biru en mi bug-post, es evidente que ni entre ellos hay afinidad ni misma cantidad de conocimiento, muchos estan sobre valorizados y muchos otros poco valorados como es el caso de Ionut Biru (alias "wonder"), y otros que ni aparecen, como Dan Mcgee quien esta a toda maquina con pacman 3.6 y firmas gpg, pero nadie le da relevancia; deberia ser el jefe de proyecto, y no Aaron, que no lo he visto hacer nada, ni un solo paquete lleva su nombre. Incluso en los mail list se ve que las decisiones las toma Tom Gundersen y los que hacen el kernel y los script de inicio, sera eso lo que pasa con archlinux?, Aaron esta lejos del proyecto y todo se descarrio?, no lo se, ni me lo contestaran, pero no voy a averiguarlo, esto me canso, basta para mi.
Comentarios, agradecimientos, puteadas, experiencias personales, preguntas son bienvenidas, sin miedo, saludos.

Una imagen vale mas que mil palabras, Andreas.... en general cada uno que me hizo poner nervioso... les digo esto:


 

8 comentarios:

  1. jajajajajaja, muy buena imagen y lamento lo q te toco vivir,es verdad que desde hace un tiempo las cosas estan raras en el universo de arch, y ya con las respuestas q daban por la falta de firma de los paquetes en mi opinion la terminaron de cagar pero por sobervios, es una lastima ya q en mi portatil hp (q es con la qjue tengo arch y estoy escribiendo ahora) no sabria q os poner :(

    ResponderEliminar
  2. Comentario transnochado, malintencionado, no se que buscan con seguirlo colgando en la web, debe ser que windows les esta pagando.

    ResponderEliminar
  3. Anónimo 2:

    No es trasnochado, de hecho esa entrada fue escrita a las 4pm hora Argentina.
    Si miras la fecha dice claramente 5/2011, o sea, hace mas de 5 meses, yo diria que comentario trasnochado el tuyo, no viste ni leiste.
    Que gano?, que se conozca la verdad, porque muchos blog o medios electronicos de informacion no se animan a publicar cosas tan sensibles, yo si.
    No uso windows, no me paga windows, no me paga nadie, trabajo por mi cuenta.
    Podria haberte censurado el comentario borrandolo como hacia Allan McRae, pero no, no soy autoritario y tampoco me gusta esconder, creo que habla mal de uno eso, no te parece?.

    ResponderEliminar
  4. Respuestas
    1. Si, tenes toda la razón, Archlinux es caca.

      Eliminar
  5. Espero que vaya todo mejor ahora :D
    Apunto tu blog a mi lector rss.

    ResponderEliminar
    Respuestas
    1. Muchas gracias, y yo tambien espero que vaya mejor. Como dije en varios articulso e incluso a la gente de Arch. Tiene todo esa distro para ser la mejor o una de las mejores, solo necesitan un poco mas de QA y developers con mayor compromiso y que escuchen un poco mas a los usuarios.

      Eliminar
  6. Mira, es un articulo de hace 3 años, describe la situacion de ArchLinux en ese momento, hay que saber reconocer las cosas, por mas que hayan pasado. La verdad es que no ando usando Arch como para hacer un analisis, lo que si se, porque miro su bugtracker, es que el tema del QA no cambio realmente, por lo tanto, asumo que si me pusiera a usarla, le encontraria fallas en unos meses, fallas que no deberian estar en una distro no testing. Si querés podes vos pasarme una lista de reportes o fallas que encontraste en los ultimos 3 meses y puedo ver como es su estado actual, aunque repito, esto describe algo del 2011, no es un post de taringa que se actualiza o un tema de actualidad, ademas de ello, mirando el bugtracker... diria que seria reafirmar lo que pasa en Arch, quizas con otros errores, pero, sin un buen QA, las cosas pasan asi, y no pasa por un tema de experiencia o no, dado que en distros como Gentoo o Slackware no he tenido errores asi de guarros, eso me da una pauta, de que algo en Arch, no funciona bien.

    Para no pecar de hablador solo te muestro dos ejemplos:

    https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/40444
    aca tenemos un reopened, lo que no habla bien de los que "cierran" bug de forma compulsiva con parches y no con arreglos
    https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/40899

    https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/39768

    https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/41183

    Podria seguir mostrandote ejemplos, ahora, por lo general los bug, son, o de error de distro, o de upstream, si te fijas, cuando una distro mete cosas de upstream que estan mal, como lo describe este post, para mi pasa a ser un error de los dos, es como cuando Fedora mete grub en estado alfa.

    Si te fijas son errores que no son generalistas a toda distro y son justamente por eso, usar todo lo mas nuevo, muchas veces que no se lleva bien entre si, por falta de control en el flujo de avance, y tambien falta de QA, probar el ecosistema a largar, antes de hacerlo.

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